To argue or not to argue with a friend

Me -> do u know who is mggpillai?
He -> duno
Me -> www.mggpillai.com i had lunch with him
Me -> political writer la damn famous in the arena.. tsk tsk tsk
He -> hai........
He -> those opposition politics again
He -> sigh......
He -> all are opposition in the name of "independent jounalism"
Me -> i think that question is reversed
Me -> any ruling party can also be 'opposition' if the other party won, that dont justify 'opposition=independent journalism'
He -> not in malaysia
Me -> but since our media is controlled by ruling party, hence only sure way to get news across is thru 'independent journalism' which is only a tool
He -> for me in malaysia, no such thing as independent
Me -> u're stating a fact that everybody know
He -> if they said it's independent, then it's opposition. simple as that
Me -> that is for the average people who do not question, who do not seek to find out the whole story.
He -> nah
Me -> and who are "they" are you implying? the less educated people who do not read, do not have access to internet? internet penetration is still low in m'sia
He -> finding a true story doesn mean we have to go to "independent"
Me -> opposition channel to speak is still minimal
He -> that;s a very naive thinking
Me -> "independent" means do not rely on one side only, here i suspect ur understanding of the term "independent" is hostile, like its a bad thing?
He -> being an opposition should have xpect minimal channe; to speak
He -> u get me wrong
He -> "independent" in malaysia is bullshit............it means opposition
He -> searching for a true story....... have to check and balance
He -> that's pro and anti govt
He -> that;s all
Me -> i sense u're coming from a different mindset in totality, having predefined judgement on "how" x-y-z is "supposed" to be.. when x-y-z is only a substance that needed to be discovered
Me -> by all means
Me -> u are quite a pro government guy, who probably will not vote for opposition at the end of the day, hence u may not understand what opposition wants.
Me -> and u think opposition is a bad thing. although opposition fights for "check and balance".
He -> as much as i dun fancy those editors in The Star, i am not not fancy about the writers in malaysiakini or Harakah
Me -> if u fancy "neither" side it means u're neutral and sitting on the fence
Me -> and u probably cannot decide what to vote for, not having a stand for urself.
He -> im not sitting on the fence
He -> im sitting on the wall
He -> opposition's main fighting propaganda is of course "for check and balance"
Me -> people who are sitting on the fence, need to "pour away" ur teacup, if its full before you start discovering news from both sides.
He -> without this, they won even have a single support if not because of "balance" etc
Me -> agree.
Me -> this is the whole idea of opposition in malaysia
Me -> as ruling party won >90% resulted in check and balance imposible
He -> i dun agree
Me -> <10% how to balance?
He -> there;s no such thing as ruling party cannot have a check and balance on their part
He -> the problem is, in malaysia, that is not happening
Me -> (ur statement do not have a sound justification)
He -> thats why some ppl are still in opposition
Me -> can u speak in malaysian context only, since u are in malaysia
Me -> what will happen if the whole country supports one ruling party?
He -> nope
He -> im not a politician
He -> it won be a good thing if whole country support 1 party
Me -> by the look of it, the trend of malaysia has always been that..
He -> no govt in the world is perfect
Me -> 90% is a big big majority, compare to the rest of the world... it is quite unbelievable
He -> if we could improve it, yes
He -> but by all means, we should not sacrifice a lot by just achieving it
Me -> there must be "reason" for why u think there will ever be "sacrify" for achieving something.
He -> we have to scarifice something to achieve something else
Me -> the only scarify i see is poor opposition leaders struggling their way out, scarifying their own time / youth to fight for something good.
He -> i would have xpect u to understand that from the lessons of life
He -> well.........i do agree with u on that
Me -> u cannot judge people / party / concept without seeing from every angle
He -> neither do u
He -> the problem is, how do u know u have seen all angle?
Me -> have I made any judgment in this conversation so far?
He -> of course
Me -> atleast i feel that i cud see more angle than u, as i read all of local newspaper AND online news
He -> no judgment = no point = no debate = no conversation at all
He -> there u go again........another judgment
Me -> that is not 'judgement' that is 'opinion'
He -> of course, u can say it's an "opinion"
He -> just like opposition that says "we are for check and balance"
Me -> "opinion" - i think durian taste bad.
Me -> "judgement" - durian IS very bad!
He -> "we are for justice" etc
He -> u judge by your opinion
He -> no matter which one u still feel durian is bad
Me -> do u think opposition people are fighting for fun, for glamour, for money, for fame?
He -> judgement is based on how u deliever it...........by thinking or saying it out
He -> u still judge it in either way
He -> nope.......i dun think so
He -> but just that i dun think so, doesn mean they are fighting for the people
Me -> then what is opposition fighting for?
He -> themselves
Me -> say, I wonder, Lim Guan Eng go to jail 2 years, lose his practise license, for himself?
He -> that is because he has gone to the limits
He -> i think he;s stupid
Me -> the point - did he fight for himself?!
Me -> or he wanted to fight for the girl?
Me -> i think from ur statement, u will be thinking i am stupid and all opposition supporters are stupid.
He -> watever or whoever he fight for, the rule of law prevails
Me -> i think talking to u makes me sound stupid
He -> u cannot just murder someone because he has a knife pointing at u
Me -> when u know law can be bribed
He -> nah.........dun wori
Me -> dun tell me u never cheated in exam
He -> it's just a clash of "opinions"
Me -> and dun tell me UPM is fair
He -> i would have xpect u to be happy coz someone wana to debate tis with u
He -> wat's the relevancy of yer questions anyway?
Me -> its not just "clash of opinion" its a sad case scenario, where I've never met a malaysian like u, who thinks like u, whom nobody can ever understand.
He -> haha
Me -> i wud be happier if I know i cud convince u to see things from a bigger angle
He -> believe me, there are many out there like me
Me -> do u know i "feel" strongly about it when i debate abt my opinion
He -> i duno
Me -> i serious do not think I'm stupid
He -> im not so easily to be convinced
He -> i said lim guan eng stupid
Me -> I know, but i seriously in my heart think u're sad case
He -> i dun say u stupid........
He -> dun relate everything
Me -> when u say lim guan eng stupid - i feel so sad.
Me -> when u say "opposition fights for themselves" I feel like crying and cutting my heart out for u.
Me -> when im willing to fight for anything.. to make this country a better place, and u just lepak ur kaki (shake ur legs) there thinking opposition fighters are stupid.
He -> then it's up to u
Me -> i feel this battle is too sad to battle for.
He -> coz i could not agree with yer statements. perhaps u should start to accept what other ppls think
He -> u could easily label me as sad case
He -> it's ok 1. u can fight for wat u think is right
Me -> i know its ok, becos u will let me say anything i want, and i shud be able to let u speak ur mind. and its a total complete utter distinct opinion
Me -> that can really turn u off
Me -> i respect freedom speech
He -> debating is ok
Me -> but i have to "let go my heart" when i start debate with people or else i'll go nuts
He -> but not up to the extend on saying "i think u r idiot"
He -> the most we could say is "i think u r wrong"
Me -> i've been called stupid and "naive"
Me -> what more shud I expect?
Me -> idiot is almost same like stupid + naive
He -> then do u have any problem in that, when ppl called u idiot etc?
Me -> at the end of the day, i feel that opposition leaders have SOOO much to lose for, in the name of a better Malaysia.
He -> do u seriously get offended wit that?
Me -> BUT the ruling party are sitting nicely in their grand office, with nice suit and bank account, and having everything, but you didn't think it's stupid - ofcos they're so smart, they gain votes, they gain money, they gain fame. that's what you think it's smart. (probably)
Me -> (i dun have a problem with name calling, if ONLY opponent can take MY name calling)
He -> i dun think those in the office are smart
Me -> but they gain ur support - the ruling leaders who didn't have to lose anything, fight for nothing, but gain ur vote.
Me -> the opposition ppl who lose so much, esp the "mental energy" to keep on changing for improvement for Malaysia - gets misunderstood by people like u.
He -> did i say i voted for them?
He -> and even if i do, what if i say i voted for a better malaysia?
Me -> and they are sooo many ppl like u will "potentially" vote for ruling party, whom I dont see fights for anything real.
Me -> ur idea of better M'sia is being painted by the idea of the ruling party.
Me -> what if a better M'sia can be really cool, of better standard, with no poverty in the rural area, everyone can speak english, and all races are happy?!
He -> we got to be practical. no single country can achieve that
He -> trust me, we are far off better
Me -> what if a better M'sia can take in all the students regardless of Matriculation or not? what if M'sia can give every SAME scholarship regardless of race?
Me -> we can be better.
Me -> what is ur benchmark?
Me -> i suspect my benchmark of "better malaysia" is very high compared to urs
He -> wat if all those happens, but ppl are fighting ?
He -> our kids,,,,,,,,although they have fair chance of going to Univ, but the country is in civil war
Me -> wat if i call u "naive" to think that THAT would happen?!
He -> it's ok
He -> i think it;s h ghly posible to happen
Me -> i can never imagine Malays fighting Chinese, if NOT because of constant "reminder" of the ruling party
Me -> IF you let society be..
Me -> let society grow..
He -> maybe not in the future, but definitely will if it happens today
Me -> society WILL grow peacefully, effectively, esp with the asian roots, where Malays are humble, and Chinese are apathetic.
He -> not at this lifetime
Me -> i will think that u have a pessimistic opinion, to think that potentially fighting will happen if everything is fair.
Me -> becos u have to read what malays themselves wrote..
He -> no
Me -> i've read many malays blog, that support abolishment of bumi policy..
He -> i think it;s practical , not pessimistic
Me -> becos they know it's not doing them any good.
Me -> What do u think of Malays like that?!
He -> that still doesn justify we are ready for it
Me -> u're limiting malaysia the chance to grow.. its like u have 2 children, and u prevent fighting, u give 1 go oversea, 1 go local uni, and justify that by saying it's for their own good, (although 1 is so unhappy) but no choice must give in.
Me -> "when" is malaysia ready for it? when u're 50, 70? 100?
He -> there are limits to everything
Me -> is there limit to growth?
He -> i duno when we will be ready............i only feel we are still not ready
Me -> can u stop a smart boy from being too smart?
Me -> u cannot stop energy
He -> bear in mind that malaysia is still young by default
Me -> i have a good example.
Me -> do u "want" to see malaysia grow in the future?
He -> in wat sense
Me -> if now is not the time, how abt in the future? wud that be possible?
He -> of course everything is possible
Me ->grow in terms of equal rights, no disparity of wealth,
Me ->good.. wud that posibility become so diffucult, if u do not start to change them now? if u do not start to change them now - there wont be any change now - and if there's no changes now - tomorrow will always BE THE SAME.
Me ->journey of the 1000 miles begin with the 1st step.
He ->just that we dun start now doesn mean we won start forever
Me ->to go to Harvard uni, u gotta start from somewhere, and "when" do u start to study hard for it?!
Me ->tomorrow?
He ->but if we begin the 1st step at the wrong time, we may not go any further
Me ->have u got any proof on that statement, research done, experience felt before?
Me ->that it "may" go wrong?
He ->13 /5/1969
Me ->who is to justify that time-x is wrong time?
Me ->that was a wrong time? go and read the actual truth of what May 13th means..
Me ->u lack alot of info due to the fact u've not done research enuf
He ->again
Me ->i asked u before alot of history facts u dun now.
He ->u have yer own judgements
He ->i have mine
Me ->but i wish that u cud read MORE before making ur judgement
Me ->always remember a coin has 2 side.
He ->nah
Me ->to stop urself from reading more, is to limit ur viewpoint
He ->u can choose not to argue with me if u think im not so knowledgable
Me ->there is a reason behind everything. i do not think this is an argument..
Me ->my ultimate game plan is to MAKE U MORE knowlegable than u already are.
He -> more knowledable will make me wiser?
Me ->yes!
Me ->wisdom come with knowledge / experience / what u've learnt
Me ->how do u think an old man is wiser?
He ->wat if sometime we become stupid because we are too wise?
He ->an old terrorist man isn't that wise, is he?
Me ->wise is wise, if u become stupid, means u've NOT reach wisdom yet.
Me ->wisdom is within u
Me ->u will know / sense / feel if somebody is "high wisdom" or "high intelligence"
He ->i dun
Me ->some people are only "high intelligence" not "high wisdom"
He ->at the end, it's up to one;s opinion
Me ->u need people to "test" u to tell u if u're wise enough?
He ->no need
He ->i dun appreciate this thing
Me ->an opinion will be useless if opinion cannot make a difference in other ppl's life.
He ->that;s what u think
Me ->I have inkling to want to make a difference while Im alive, if i have the capacity to.
Me ->"thinking with opinion" is not good enough for me, to be as a human.
Me -> im saving this chat. need further analysis.