Tuesday, March 15, 2005

To argue or not to argue with a friend

Me -> do u know who is mggpillai?
He -> duno
Me -> www.mggpillai.com i had lunch with him
Me -> political writer la damn famous in the arena.. tsk tsk tsk
He -> hai........
He -> those opposition politics again
He -> sigh......
He -> all are opposition in the name of "independent jounalism"
Me -> i think that question is reversed
Me -> any ruling party can also be 'opposition' if the other party won, that dont justify 'opposition=independent journalism'
He -> not in malaysia
Me -> but since our media is controlled by ruling party, hence only sure way to get news across is thru 'independent journalism' which is only a tool
He -> for me in malaysia, no such thing as independent
Me -> u're stating a fact that everybody know
He -> if they said it's independent, then it's opposition. simple as that
Me -> that is for the average people who do not question, who do not seek to find out the whole story.
He -> nah
Me -> and who are "they" are you implying? the less educated people who do not read, do not have access to internet? internet penetration is still low in m'sia
He -> finding a true story doesn mean we have to go to "independent"
Me -> opposition channel to speak is still minimal
He -> that;s a very naive thinking
Me -> "independent" means do not rely on one side only, here i suspect ur understanding of the term "independent" is hostile, like its a bad thing?
He -> being an opposition should have xpect minimal channe; to speak
He -> u get me wrong
He -> "independent" in malaysia is bullshit............it means opposition
He -> searching for a true story....... have to check and balance
He -> that's pro and anti govt
He -> that;s all
Me -> i sense u're coming from a different mindset in totality, having predefined judgement on "how" x-y-z is "supposed" to be.. when x-y-z is only a substance that needed to be discovered
Me -> by all means
Me -> u are quite a pro government guy, who probably will not vote for opposition at the end of the day, hence u may not understand what opposition wants.
Me -> and u think opposition is a bad thing. although opposition fights for "check and balance".
He -> as much as i dun fancy those editors in The Star, i am not not fancy about the writers in malaysiakini or Harakah
Me -> if u fancy "neither" side it means u're neutral and sitting on the fence
Me -> and u probably cannot decide what to vote for, not having a stand for urself.
He -> im not sitting on the fence
He -> im sitting on the wall
He -> opposition's main fighting propaganda is of course "for check and balance"
Me -> people who are sitting on the fence, need to "pour away" ur teacup, if its full before you start discovering news from both sides.
He -> without this, they won even have a single support if not because of "balance" etc
Me -> agree.
Me -> this is the whole idea of opposition in malaysia
Me -> as ruling party won >90% resulted in check and balance imposible
He -> i dun agree
Me -> <10% how to balance?
He -> there;s no such thing as ruling party cannot have a check and balance on their part
He -> the problem is, in malaysia, that is not happening
Me -> (ur statement do not have a sound justification)
He -> thats why some ppl are still in opposition
Me -> can u speak in malaysian context only, since u are in malaysia
Me -> what will happen if the whole country supports one ruling party?
He -> nope
He -> im not a politician
He -> it won be a good thing if whole country support 1 party
Me -> by the look of it, the trend of malaysia has always been that..
He -> no govt in the world is perfect
Me -> 90% is a big big majority, compare to the rest of the world... it is quite unbelievable
He -> if we could improve it, yes
He -> but by all means, we should not sacrifice a lot by just achieving it
Me -> there must be "reason" for why u think there will ever be "sacrify" for achieving something.
He -> we have to scarifice something to achieve something else
Me -> the only scarify i see is poor opposition leaders struggling their way out, scarifying their own time / youth to fight for something good.
He -> i would have xpect u to understand that from the lessons of life
He -> well.........i do agree with u on that
Me -> u cannot judge people / party / concept without seeing from every angle
He -> neither do u
He -> the problem is, how do u know u have seen all angle?
Me -> have I made any judgment in this conversation so far?
He -> of course
Me -> atleast i feel that i cud see more angle than u, as i read all of local newspaper AND online news
He -> no judgment = no point = no debate = no conversation at all
He -> there u go again........another judgment
Me -> that is not 'judgement' that is 'opinion'
He -> of course, u can say it's an "opinion"
He -> just like opposition that says "we are for check and balance"
Me -> "opinion" - i think durian taste bad.
Me -> "judgement" - durian IS very bad!
He -> "we are for justice" etc
He -> u judge by your opinion
He -> no matter which one u still feel durian is bad
Me -> do u think opposition people are fighting for fun, for glamour, for money, for fame?
He -> judgement is based on how u deliever it...........by thinking or saying it out
He -> u still judge it in either way
He -> nope.......i dun think so
He -> but just that i dun think so, doesn mean they are fighting for the people
Me -> then what is opposition fighting for?
He -> themselves
Me -> say, I wonder, Lim Guan Eng go to jail 2 years, lose his practise license, for himself?
He -> that is because he has gone to the limits
He -> i think he;s stupid
Me -> the point - did he fight for himself?!
Me -> or he wanted to fight for the girl?
Me -> i think from ur statement, u will be thinking i am stupid and all opposition supporters are stupid.
He -> watever or whoever he fight for, the rule of law prevails
Me -> i think talking to u makes me sound stupid
He -> u cannot just murder someone because he has a knife pointing at u
Me -> when u know law can be bribed
He -> nah.........dun wori
Me -> dun tell me u never cheated in exam
He -> it's just a clash of "opinions"
Me -> and dun tell me UPM is fair
He -> i would have xpect u to be happy coz someone wana to debate tis with u
He -> wat's the relevancy of yer questions anyway?
Me -> its not just "clash of opinion" its a sad case scenario, where I've never met a malaysian like u, who thinks like u, whom nobody can ever understand.
He -> haha
Me -> i wud be happier if I know i cud convince u to see things from a bigger angle
He -> believe me, there are many out there like me
Me -> do u know i "feel" strongly about it when i debate abt my opinion
He -> i duno
Me -> i serious do not think I'm stupid
He -> im not so easily to be convinced
He -> i said lim guan eng stupid
Me -> I know, but i seriously in my heart think u're sad case
He -> i dun say u stupid........
He -> dun relate everything
Me -> when u say lim guan eng stupid - i feel so sad.
Me -> when u say "opposition fights for themselves" I feel like crying and cutting my heart out for u.
Me -> when im willing to fight for anything.. to make this country a better place, and u just lepak ur kaki (shake ur legs) there thinking opposition fighters are stupid.
He -> then it's up to u
Me -> i feel this battle is too sad to battle for.
He -> coz i could not agree with yer statements. perhaps u should start to accept what other ppls think
He -> u could easily label me as sad case
He -> it's ok 1. u can fight for wat u think is right
Me -> i know its ok, becos u will let me say anything i want, and i shud be able to let u speak ur mind. and its a total complete utter distinct opinion
Me -> that can really turn u off
Me -> i respect freedom speech
He -> debating is ok
Me -> but i have to "let go my heart" when i start debate with people or else i'll go nuts
He -> but not up to the extend on saying "i think u r idiot"
He -> the most we could say is "i think u r wrong"
Me -> i've been called stupid and "naive"
Me -> what more shud I expect?
Me -> idiot is almost same like stupid + naive
He -> then do u have any problem in that, when ppl called u idiot etc?
Me -> at the end of the day, i feel that opposition leaders have SOOO much to lose for, in the name of a better Malaysia.
He -> do u seriously get offended wit that?
Me -> BUT the ruling party are sitting nicely in their grand office, with nice suit and bank account, and having everything, but you didn't think it's stupid - ofcos they're so smart, they gain votes, they gain money, they gain fame. that's what you think it's smart. (probably)
Me -> (i dun have a problem with name calling, if ONLY opponent can take MY name calling)
He -> i dun think those in the office are smart
Me -> but they gain ur support - the ruling leaders who didn't have to lose anything, fight for nothing, but gain ur vote.
Me -> the opposition ppl who lose so much, esp the "mental energy" to keep on changing for improvement for Malaysia - gets misunderstood by people like u.
He -> did i say i voted for them?
He -> and even if i do, what if i say i voted for a better malaysia?
Me -> and they are sooo many ppl like u will "potentially" vote for ruling party, whom I dont see fights for anything real.
Me -> ur idea of better M'sia is being painted by the idea of the ruling party.
Me -> what if a better M'sia can be really cool, of better standard, with no poverty in the rural area, everyone can speak english, and all races are happy?!
He -> we got to be practical. no single country can achieve that
He -> trust me, we are far off better
Me -> what if a better M'sia can take in all the students regardless of Matriculation or not? what if M'sia can give every SAME scholarship regardless of race?
Me -> we can be better.
Me -> what is ur benchmark?
Me -> i suspect my benchmark of "better malaysia" is very high compared to urs
He -> wat if all those happens, but ppl are fighting ?
He -> our kids,,,,,,,,although they have fair chance of going to Univ, but the country is in civil war
Me -> wat if i call u "naive" to think that THAT would happen?!
He -> it's ok
He -> i think it;s h ghly posible to happen
Me -> i can never imagine Malays fighting Chinese, if NOT because of constant "reminder" of the ruling party
Me -> IF you let society be..
Me -> let society grow..
He -> maybe not in the future, but definitely will if it happens today
Me -> society WILL grow peacefully, effectively, esp with the asian roots, where Malays are humble, and Chinese are apathetic.
He -> not at this lifetime
Me -> i will think that u have a pessimistic opinion, to think that potentially fighting will happen if everything is fair.
Me -> becos u have to read what malays themselves wrote..
He -> no
Me -> i've read many malays blog, that support abolishment of bumi policy..
He -> i think it;s practical , not pessimistic
Me -> becos they know it's not doing them any good.
Me -> What do u think of Malays like that?!
He -> that still doesn justify we are ready for it
Me -> u're limiting malaysia the chance to grow.. its like u have 2 children, and u prevent fighting, u give 1 go oversea, 1 go local uni, and justify that by saying it's for their own good, (although 1 is so unhappy) but no choice must give in.
Me -> "when" is malaysia ready for it? when u're 50, 70? 100?
He -> there are limits to everything
Me -> is there limit to growth?
He -> i duno when we will be ready............i only feel we are still not ready
Me -> can u stop a smart boy from being too smart?
Me -> u cannot stop energy
He -> bear in mind that malaysia is still young by default
Me -> i have a good example.
Me -> do u "want" to see malaysia grow in the future?
He -> in wat sense
Me -> if now is not the time, how abt in the future? wud that be possible?
He -> of course everything is possible
Me ->grow in terms of equal rights, no disparity of wealth,
Me ->good.. wud that posibility become so diffucult, if u do not start to change them now? if u do not start to change them now - there wont be any change now - and if there's no changes now - tomorrow will always BE THE SAME.
Me ->journey of the 1000 miles begin with the 1st step.
He ->just that we dun start now doesn mean we won start forever
Me ->to go to Harvard uni, u gotta start from somewhere, and "when" do u start to study hard for it?!
Me ->tomorrow?
He ->but if we begin the 1st step at the wrong time, we may not go any further
Me ->have u got any proof on that statement, research done, experience felt before?
Me ->that it "may" go wrong?
He ->13 /5/1969
Me ->who is to justify that time-x is wrong time?
Me ->that was a wrong time? go and read the actual truth of what May 13th means..
Me ->u lack alot of info due to the fact u've not done research enuf
He ->again
Me ->i asked u before alot of history facts u dun now.
He ->u have yer own judgements
He ->i have mine
Me ->but i wish that u cud read MORE before making ur judgement
Me ->always remember a coin has 2 side.
He ->nah
Me ->to stop urself from reading more, is to limit ur viewpoint
He ->u can choose not to argue with me if u think im not so knowledgable
Me ->there is a reason behind everything. i do not think this is an argument..
Me ->my ultimate game plan is to MAKE U MORE knowlegable than u already are.
He -> more knowledable will make me wiser?
Me ->yes!
Me ->wisdom come with knowledge / experience / what u've learnt
Me ->how do u think an old man is wiser?
He ->wat if sometime we become stupid because we are too wise?
He ->an old terrorist man isn't that wise, is he?
Me ->wise is wise, if u become stupid, means u've NOT reach wisdom yet.
Me ->wisdom is within u
Me ->u will know / sense / feel if somebody is "high wisdom" or "high intelligence"
He ->i dun
Me ->some people are only "high intelligence" not "high wisdom"
He ->at the end, it's up to one;s opinion
Me ->u need people to "test" u to tell u if u're wise enough?
He ->no need
He ->i dun appreciate this thing
Me ->an opinion will be useless if opinion cannot make a difference in other ppl's life.
He ->that;s what u think
Me ->I have inkling to want to make a difference while Im alive, if i have the capacity to.
Me ->"thinking with opinion" is not good enough for me, to be as a human.
Me -> im saving this chat. need further analysis.


roya parsay said...

I am a Muslim please visit my site and get to know that NOWHERE in QUran anything is said about dishes and china and all.why dont you read Quran yourself so you can answer the fake ones or bias ones?mostly liers like the whole mUllahs in Iran governing that country hiding under name of ISlam. handful of people hijacked Islam. www.royaparsay.blogspot.com

Nee Sern said...

one goal
one spirit
one determination

national unity
our responsibility!

ahmoi said...

to roya parsay, thanks for ur comment. i wonder how my office akah can be so 'islamic'. I really wudn't mind reading the Quran, if its in English, but I wonder if muslim wud read resources of other religion? interfaith understanding wud bring more good than disparity :) hehe.

Nee Sern said...

don't let your spirit die. some day, we will be truly one nation.

as for convincing your friend, it takes 2 to tango. you have done your part, it is up to your friend to choose to accept and open his mind to wider viewpoints.

Anonymous said...

Remember one thing, don't bring in religions into politic world.

Every field has their own way of playing the game. Often we get confused when we bring in religions matter into the game.

No one yet win the game, just someone is ruling the game pretty perfectly. If one day someone wins the game, of course the game is over and they will be no more spectators to support/watch. Which one day, the spectators/supporters will slowly forget about the winner. And the story continues...

my_kc1 said...

simple minded keeps doctor away